“Federal Law Forbids Sale or Reuse of this Bottle” Marking

The “Federal Law Forbids Sale or Reuse of this Bottle” phrase was required on all liquor bottles sold within the United States that were made between 1935 and 1964.  However, some bottles that date into the early or mid-1970s have also been seen with this warning embossed on them.

Since hundreds (or thousands) of bottle molds would have been in active use circa 1964 when the phrase requirement was phased out, it would have been highly expensive, time-consuming and basically pointless to re-tool all the molds to “erase” the warning, thus it is certain that some bottles continued to carry the phrase for some time after 1964.


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Seagrams Seven Crown glass decanter- possibly from 1966- Made by Thatcher Glass Manufacturing Company
Seagrams Seven Crown liquor decanter, made by Thatcher Glass Manufacturing Company

Nevertheless,  it is still a fairly safe bet that most bottles with this marking do indeed date from that 29-year period. Huge numbers of all types and shapes of “spirits” flasks & cylinder-shaped (fifth) bottles (bourbon & scotch whiskey, gin, vermouth, vodka, etc, etc) were marked with this phrase.

This was done in an effort to discourage the reuse of empty bottles for bottling and selling homemade (that is, unregulated)  distilled liquor (“moonshine”),  the sale of which had became very common and widespread during the Prohibition era.


 

EAGRAMS--Federal Law Forbids Sale or reuse of this bottle- marking on the base of a vintage Seagrams Seven Crown liquor decanter/bottle, made in the 1960s.
Base of SEAGRAM’S SEVEN CROWN liquor decanter, marked “FEDERAL LAW / FORBIDS SALE OR REUSE OF / THIS BOTTLE” /   2    D-126  [MTC logo]   6       Made by Thatcher Glass Manufacturing Company.   “2” is the “liquor bottle permit number” assigned to Thatcher.   “6”  is the date code, meaning here is uncertain but possibly standing for 1966.  “D-126” is a distiller code number assigned to Seagram’s.

Many of these are ordinary “generic” glass liquor bottles with nothing particularly unusual about them.   However, many of the bottles of this period are beautifully designed, with unusual and artistic shapes, designs, and raised graphics employed.  Some of the bottles exhibit, to some degree, an “Art Deco” influence.   Many of them were intentionally designed to be saved and reused as decanters or rather elaborately designed decorative bottles or vases. Many decanters show geometric themes and motifs.  This was often done as part of marketing campaigns to promote the sale of alcoholic beverages.

The latter part of this period (especially during the 1950s and throughout the 1960s) the production of, and popularity of collecting, ceramic (and opaque glass) liquor containers (such as the Jim Beam bottles) was at it’s peak, and these containers are often seen with the “Federal Law forbids……” notation.   Jim Beam decanter collecting is an entire world of bottle collecting in it’s own right.


Trivia note:  The so-called “Genie Bottle” or “Jeannie Bottle” as seen in the TV show “I Dream of Jeannie” is probably the most well-known bottle that bears the “Federal Law….” phrase on the base.  This was actually a commemorative decanter marketed for “Beam’s Choice” bourbon whiskey in 1964.  The original bottles were made in fairly large numbers and were produced in a smoky gray-green glass.  They were manufactured by Wheaton Glass Company of Millville, New Jersey.

The original director of the series (Gene Nelson) saw one of the bottles in a shop and purchased it for the Screen Gems prop department. The prop department removed the labels and painted it to give the bottle a more antique, exotic appearance.  Over the next five years a number of identical bottles were used for the series. Beginning in season two (when the series switched to color) the bottles were painted pink, purple and gold in a more elaborate design.

The original bottles are marked with “D-334” (the distiller ID number assigned to Jim Beam) ,   “119” which is the  liquor bottle permit number  assigned to Wheaton, and the date code “64” for 1964 on the bottom.   A mold cavity number, such as “2” or “7” is placed directly below the “119  64”.   The “Federal Law Forbids Sale or Reuse of this Bottle” phrase is embossed in a circle on the base.

Another issue of this “genie bottle” bottle design was made in the early 1970s in a light to medium blue glass. That type of bottle has a handle, and the ones I have seen all bear a “73” date code for 1973. They were also made by Wheaton.  The words “Liquor Bottle” are embossed in a circle on the base,  replacing the “Federal Law….” phrase.    A third bottle of this shape (also with a handle) in a bold ruby red color was issued for Beam in 1980. Those examples bear an “80” date code.  The red color is “flashed” or surface stained and does not go all the way through the glass.  That bottle also bears the lettering “LIQUOR BOTTLE” in a circle on the base.  Check out this article below with some information on those bottles:         PopCultureReferences.com article about the “Jeannie Bottle”


Large numbers of liquor bottles with the “Federal Law Forbids….” marking were made by such glassmakers as  Owens-Illinois Glass Company,   Thatcher Glass Manufacturing Company,   Anchor Hocking Glass Corporation,  and other bottle makers.

Below, a typical bottle base and the markings shown on it, with some text to explain their meaning:


Markings on base of amber bottle, made in 1957 by Owens-Illinois. D-23 is distiller code number, 65 is the liquor bottle permit number (for their glass plant at Streator, Illinois), 57 is date code for 1957.
Markings on base of amber bottle, made in 1957 by Owens-Illinois. D-23 is distiller code number, 65 is the liquor bottle permit number (for their glass plant at Streator, Illinois), 57 is date code for 1957.

 

Federal Law Forbids Sale or Reuse of this bottle - phrase on amber liquor bottle made by Owens-Illinois, Glass Company, marked D-23 / 65-57 on the base.
“Federal Law Forbids Sale or Reuse of this Bottle” embossed on the face of amber liquor bottle made by Owens-Illinois Glass Company in 1957 (base shown above).
Liqueur bottle with "Federal Law Forbids Sale or Reuse of this Bottle" on face, made by Owens-Illinois Glass Company in 1957.
Amber glass Liquor bottle (some kind of Liqueur?) made by Owens-Illinois in 1957 with the “Federal Law…..” phrase across front (shown above).

Often, these liquor bottles are marked on the bottom with so-called “Liquor Bottle Permit Numbers” which were required on the bottles.    Usually ( but not always)  the permit number was embossed on the left, and the date code on the right, separated by a dash.

For more information on liquor bottle permit numbers, please see my webpage at this link:  Glass Industry Liquor Bottle Permit Numbers – Numerical List.


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Some liquor bottles are marked on the base with a “rectifier number” (R-number) or a distiller identification number (D-number).  Here’s a webpage where someone  (I don’t know who) has posted on the internet a list of a few rectifier and distiller code numbers seen on bottles, and what company they represent.   I can’t confirm that all of this information is absolutely correct, but I assume it is:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/51379b83e4b02119d184b2a2/t/584a336ee4fcb59adb85c48b/1481257838281/User+Permit+numbers.pdf


Please click here for my page discussing   “Numbers on the bottoms of glass bottles and jars”.

For an extensive list of glass manufacturers’ marks seen on bottles, fruit jars, electrical insulators, tableware and other glassware, please click here which will take you to the GLASS  BOTTLE MARKS pages, page one.

Click here to go to the website  HOME PAGE.

 


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51 thoughts on ““Federal Law Forbids Sale or Reuse of this Bottle” Marking”

  1. Hello,
    I found a clear 1/2 pint bottle, sealed with liquor inside, but no label, while i was metal detecting. the markings on the bottom are D-1, 54-56. I know the 54-56 is a permit number/ year, but cannot ref. the D-1. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you

  2. Hi David

    Over the past weekend, we uncovered a square amber 4/5 QT bottle that is embossed with roses on two sides in our lake. The numbers on the bottle of the bottle are D-9 65 58 M-2518 A. I have attempted to locate where the bottle originated, as well as what type of alcohol was in the bottle using the links provided on your site to no avail. Would you happen to know anything about the bottle?

    1. Hi Susan,

      From the information you have supplied, here is what I can pass along: The “D-9” is a distiller code number for Schenley, who sold a number of different brands of liquor over many years. The “65” is a liquor bottle permit number which can be found in my list here: Liquor Bottle Permit Numbers. The “58′ is the date code for 1958, the year the bottle was made. “M-2518” is probably an inventory/catalog number assigned to that bottle style.
      There should also be a mark for Owens-Illinois Glass Company somewhere on the base. Since that bottle was most likely a “multi-purpose” or generic liquor bottle, there is probably no way to be sure what type or brand was originally in it.
      Hope this helps!
      David

  3. Okay here’s one more for you. I know that it’s definitely a liquor bottle. But it does have a patent number on it.
    D-460
    9. S 8
    Then the patent #.

    I can’t really read the numbers for that.
    It is a 1/2 pt bottle with all of the federal stuff.

    1. Hi Mari Kay,
      Only in a VERY, VERY general sense. Screw tops/lids have been in use since at least the late 1850s on some fruit jars, BUT in those cases the screw top was “ground” (looked as if it was ground down with rough sandpaper). Some smaller, older bottles are also occasionally found with this “ground lip” screw threading, probably introduced in the 1870s or 1880s period. I don’t have specific info on the timelines here. In general, most bottles were made with some type of “non-screw type closure” (i.e. made for cork, porcelain or glass stoppers) up until the 1900-1910 era, and after that screw tops GRADUALLY came into wider and wider use, but over a period of decades. So, let me repeat that there are no hard and fast rules, but cork top lips are, in general, older than MOST screw-type lips on bottles but there can be exceptions. By the 1930s-1940s most bottles had screw tops instead of cork tops. BUT, there being a wide variety of companies selling products in bottles, keep in mind that the timeline could have varied widely depending on exactly what type of bottle, what product, what company and what brand name is being discussed. I know this is confusing, but hope it helps a little!
      David

  4. I have a screw top rectangular thin clear glass bottle with a large Crescent shape design on one side of the bottle near the top. The bottle has the following makings that I tried to use to identify but was not able to determine.

    On the bottom left side the number 1
    In the center D – 9 on top underneath that 20 59
    Next to that the letter P in a circle
    Sideways to the P in the circle H16-60B

    Found the bottle in the Edisto River in South Carolina

    1. Hi William,
      From the markings you’ve provided, here is what I can pass along: It is definitely a liquor bottle, which is indicated by the “D-9” marking which is a distiller identification code. The brand owner/distiller was Schenley, according to info in this list of Distiller code markings:
      https://static1.squarespace.com/static/51379b83e4b02119d184b2a2/t/584a336ee4fcb59adb85c48b/1481257838281/User+Permit+numbers.pdf
      but I don’t know what exact brand would have originally been in that bottle.

      The “20” is a liquor bottle permit number assigned to Pierce Glass Company, who used a “P in a circle” as their trademark. The “59” is a year date code for 1959. The H16-60B is probably a catalog / inventory number that pertains to that exact style of bottle, although I have no other info on that code.

      Best regards, David

  5. I bought a bottle that has french poodles on it, really cute, hard to imagine it was a liquor bottle. The bottom has the Federal words however.

  6. I found a bottle the label is yellow and says Kentucky carnival Kentucky straight whiskey. 90 proof. 1 pint bottled for Lynndale distillery. Has a cork stopper on the back, it has a stamp that says Arkansas liquor tax. Bottom markings are D10 on top, 56 to the left and 5 to the right.

    1. Hi Alan,
      I don’t have info on the bottle, other than the “56” is a “Liquor bottle permit number” assigned to Owens-Illinois Glass Company’s factory at Charleston, West Virginia. The “5” is a date code, but I am not sure which year it would be…. either 1935, 1945 or 1955. The “D 10” is a distiller identification code.
      Take care,
      David
      [Reply edited 4/6/2021: The liquor bottle permit number “56” was assigned to Owens-Illinois’ plant at Charleston, West Virginia, not the former Hemingray plant at Muncie, Indiana, as I originally stated in my reply here to Alan. Sorry about that error!]

      1. I found a Federal Law Forbids sale bottle for Henry E Wilkins whiskey. I am trying to get the date of the bottle. On the bottom is a D230 under that is 55 with the diamond oval and i symbol and a 6 then under that M1645.

        1. Also, it is embossed with “Pa’s” head with the distillery and home in the background on one side, smooth on the opposite with their signatures around the bottle and wheat on the sides. Also a number 13 is above the H in Henry on bottom right corner.

        2. Hi Lindsay,
          OK, we know that the “55” is a liquor bottle permit number that was assigned to Owens-Illinois Glass Company’s factory at Huntington, West Virginia. The “6” is the year date code, but although I can’t be 100% sure which year it was, I lean toward 1936 because it was common on most bottles to have a “single-number” year date code in the 1930s. In the 1940s and 1950s most date codes were written as two-digit codes (such as “44” or “46” for 1944 or 1946 respectively. The D230 is a distiller code number.
          Hope this helps!
          David

  7. I recently found a glass bottle that has the federal prohibits sale or reuse on it as well as 4/5 quarts on it. However after checking your list I didn’t find any info on my marking from the bottom. Wondering if you could tell me what it is from. Markings are 61 D-1 64. Thank you

    1. Hi Tyler, the bottle markings on this particular type of bottle: “61” is a liquor bottle permit number, in this case assigned to Owens-Illinois Glass Company. There are lists of LBPN’s online. Although I am sure “61” was one of many of the numbers assigned to Owens-Illinois, I don’t know which specific plant location used that number. The “D-1” is a distiller identification code number. The “64” is a year date code for 1964, which is when the bottle was made. Many of those types of bottles were unmarked except for on the base and so it may be difficult to know exactly what brand/type of alcoholic beverage it originally contained. Hope this helps,
      David
      [Update – edited 4/8/2021 – Recently I found that the liquor bottle permit number “61” was assigned to Owens-Illinois Glass Company’s glass plant at Muncie, Indiana.]

      1. Hi, I have a bottle that has no markings other than “federal law prohibits sale or re use of this bottle” and “one pint” labeled on both sides. Also has arrow like markings next to the “one pint” label. The bottom reads
        “D-1
        60-53” and then sideways “4”

        Can you tell me anything you know about this items markings?

        1. Hi Chrissy,
          Your bottle is a liquor bottle that was made by Owens-Illinois Glass Company at their Gas City, Indiana plant in 1953. The “60” is a liquor bottle permit number assigned to the Gas City factory location. “53” is a year date code. (See my list of LBPN codes here: Liquor Bottle Permit Numbers – Numerical List .
          The “D-1” is a distiller identification code. The “4” would be a mold number. There should be a “Diamond/oval/I” mark somewhere on the bottle that was the Owens-Illinois trademark.
          The “D-1” indicates the distiller company was “National Distillers”. They produced such brands as Old Grand Dad, Old Tayler, and Old Crow. I got that info from this page: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/51379b83e4b02119d184b2a2/t/584a336ee4fcb59adb85c48b/1481257838281/User+Permit+numbers.pdf

          You might try some keyword searches on ebay or Worthopedia that might bring up similar bottles with the labels still attached, to compare to your bottle design.
          I hope this helps,
          David

  8. Hello! I’ve found a clear bottle marked 1/2 Pint near the bottom and D-2 40-8 on the bottom. Perhaps this is an American Distilling bottle? I’m wondering if there is a way to know the original contents and age?

  9. I just found a clear glass bottle with “Federal law forbids sale or re-use of this bottle” on the upper portion of the bottle and 4/5 quart on the lower portion. On the very bottom the lettering D-2 and 40-44. Ideas on its origin? Thanks

    1. Michael, the “40” is a “liquor bottle permit number”. That number doesn’t appear in lists of LBPM’s online, (you can find that list by searching google with those four keywords) but, from seeing another bottle bearing that number which also carries the “H over A” trademark, the number 40 was evidently assigned to the Hazel-Atlas Glass Company. The “44” is a date code, so your liquor bottle was made by Hazel-Atlas in 1944. Please see my webpage on Hazel-Atlas for a bit more information on that company. The D-2 is a distiller code number used by American Distillers, according to some information on various Distiller Codes and Rectifier codes seen on bottles, described at this link (pdf file):
      https://static1.squarespace.com/static/51379b83e4b02119d184b2a2/t/584a336ee4fcb59adb85c48b/1481257838281/User+Permit+numbers.pdf
      Hope this helps!
      David

  10. I’ve found a clear, glass bottle that I’d like to have more information on, if possible. It’s a half pint bottle (“half pint” embossed on top of bottle, next to neck). Hearts and vines/flowers cover the entire bottle. It has either an “I” inside of a circle or a “1” inside of a circle. It also has other numbers and letters on the bottom. Any information would be great! Thanks

  11. I have a bottle with Hires improved root beer. Bottom C 27. Manufactured by the Charles E. Hires CO. Philadelphia, PA U.S.A.

  12. Hi, I have an amber bottle approx 9″ tall, bottom is 5″ in dia. with top neck of 1 1/4″ dia. Cork top, not screw type. The “Federal Law Forbids” language is at the top of the 5″ dia. part of bottle.
    On the bottom of the bottle is: D 90, then under that is: 12 (A in wavy circle) 51, then under that is: .11 or .ll
    One side of the bottle (at the top) has a raised flat circle, approx. 1 1/2″ in dia.
    I would just like to know who made this bottle. Any help would be appreciated.
    Thanks

    1. Debbie, from the markings on the bottom, I believe your bottle was made by Armstrong Cork Company (Glass Division) in 1951. The “A in a circle” was their mark, and the “51” is a date code for 1951. They made a lot of amber bottles of various types.
      David

  13. I have an old forester bottle. Clear glass, gold flaring cap, half way up the bottle the glass is protruded in a circle shape on all 4 sides. Its bottled in bond, 100 proof-4/5 quart. It has a state of ohio department oc liquor control sticker on it with the number 0506108 60. It has the federal law forbids saying on the bottom and also .64 59 on one bottom side and OlD l0 on the other.

    1. Hi Patrick,
      The only info I can pass along is the bottle was made by Owens-Illinois Glass Company, at their Alton, Illinois plant. The “64” is a liquor bottle permit number which was assigned to the Alton location, and the “59” is a date code for 1959, which is the year the bottle itself was made. I am suspecting the “60” in the long series of numerals might indicate the liquor was actually bottled in 1960?
      Best regards,
      David

    2. I recently found a brown bottle from national distillers buried in my back yard . I would like to have it dated…. what are the steps in doing so?

    1. Leslie,
      I can’t say I can give you a definite answer. But may I make these observations, and they are to the best of my limited knowledge:
      1) Decanters (in GLASS) have been made since (I believe) at least the 1830s, perhaps long before? (Hopefully, someone who lands on this page can write and correct me with better, more detailed information!)
      2) Most older decanters, say pre-1880, were primarily used in commercial settings, such as taverns, bars, steamboats, hotels, inns and clubs. They were handmade, typically hand-blown, and expensive to make as well as purchase.
      3) Mass-manufactured glass decanters became very common and popular in the 1930s-1940s, and extending on into the 1970s, especially those which were originally sold with liquor in them (as ordinary bottles, sold retail in liquor stores etc) and which were often saved by the householder to be used AS a decanter (or vase). Lots of the cheapest type end up for sale in thrift shops and at flea markets.
      4) Many households never did (and still don’t) have decanters as part of their household furnishings. Why? Because they are non-drinkers. I have no idea what percentage of Americans do not have alcohol of any kind their homes, but I think it is a higher percentage than generally realized. In my opinion, having decanters never has been the “norm”, although as time has passed they have become much more common in homes, often used as an item of “decor”.
      Readers???
      ~David

      1. Pure speculation here, but as a Catholic from a long line of Catholics and a Coug from a long line of WSU Cougs, alcohol is definitely part of my culture and circle. And I can say that in my wide circle, there is ONE person who actually uses decanters, and she is a very fussy clutter person. I have an image that decanters went out of style in the 80s when décor leaned more to electronics and cleaner, streamlined looks (disregarding the florals and sponge paint crazes). Now, who even has time to decant their liquors from one bottle to another? we just drink it up lol. again, purely speculation from personal experience.

  14. I found a bottle on the beach that has the federal law prohibits print and has the 4/5 quart at the bottom. On the bottom of the bottle it has St. Croix sugar cane industries. St. Croix VI. It has the number 1206 on the bottom along with ppg in the center of the bottom and on the left side of ppg is the number 5 and on the right side of ppg is the number 52. The bottle has a cork top and is clear glass.

  15. I found a dark amber colored bottle halfway burried under the ground, it was a long neck bottle and says federal law prohibits sale or reuse of this bottle and around the bottom it said 4/5 quart and the bottom of the bottle reads: Francisco Palau Cuba De Santiago with a compass imprinted on the middle…. does anyone know anything about This?

  16. i found a half pint (written down the side) bottle that has “Federal Law Prohibits Sale and Reuse of this Bottle in a diamond shape just below the neck and the serial number is r-126 (then it has a “s” enclosed in a circle) 31-6 , anyone have info on it?

  17. So If a person has a bottle marked, “Federal law forbids sale or reuse of this bottle” and sells it to a collector friend of his on ebay will they see black suvs with 12 men in suits and dark sunglasses surround their house and arrest all members?

    1. Perhaps. But, then he or she will wake up and realize it was just a silly dream.
      Seriously, the marking served it’s purpose in years past when it was required on all liquor bottles, but no longer has any relevance in today’s world. The circumstances are completely different now, and the federal government has more important things to worry about.
      Chill!
      ~David

        1. Of course you’re right. But that won’t stop me from replying with a bit of information, in case someone lands on the page and gets the wrong idea. In today’s world of ultra-political correctness, ya never know!

  18. I found and clear liquor bottle that has a date 1876 on bottom as well as a letter B with a circle around it. And on bottom it has D-1 then in left side of the circled B it has 129 then on other side it has 57. It also has a gold cap on top with the letters ND can anyone tell me anything bout this bottle. Also says federal law forbids sale or re-iae of this bottle

    1. Jeffrey, that’s a liquor bottle made by Brockway Glass Company, “57” is probably the date code for 1957. Also, see my page on the “Federal Law Forbid Sale or Reuse of this bottle” phrase.
      David

  19. I found at an estate sale of a gentleman who worked in the liquor industry a great bottle of Esmeralda ANIS liqueur from Spain with a heavy diamond pattern and “FEDERAL LAW FORBIDS…” near the top of the wine bottle shaped vessel. The bottom reads, “MARTINI & ROSSI MADRID SPAIN” in a circle with a G inside a circle in the center.
    It is indeed from Spain, imported by Renfield Importers Ltd. New York, NY.
    So I imagine other countries also printed the Federal Law statement on exports.
    I searched the net and couldn’t find the same brand/type or the bottle.
    So that tells me it’s either very rare and valuable or more likely, collectors aren’t interested.
    On the other hand it was made by a relatively well known entity, Martini & Rossi (on the rocks. Say y-eh-eh-es.). Not that it really matters. I won’t sell it but any thoughts on value?

    1. Nic, I have no info on value. Search ebay over a period of several weeks or months with pertinant keywords, and check ending auction prices if any similar bottles should be listed there. Most of these relatively recent liquor bottles (especially mass-produced bottles from Europe) have little value to “hardcore” antique bottle collectors. However, every major brand usually has a few collectors who specialize in their products. Some types of recent liquor bottles have high demand if they are “special edition” , “commemorative” bottles and those are usually saved unopened as collector pieces. Example: CERTAIN Makers Mark whiskey bottles.
      ~David

  20. hi I found an old liquor bottle with no label of where its from or who made it. All it has is a number on the bottom of the bottle. I know its a cork bottle because it doesn’t have threads on the top. It also has “federal law forbids sale or re-use of this bottle.” The number on the bottom is 3D7@12-42. If u could tell me how to find out more information and what its worth that would be great. Thanks a lot!

    Lakota

    1. Lakota, if there is an “A inside a circle” that would be a trademark/logo for Armstrong Cork Company, who made bottles as well as glass electrical insulators. The ’42’ is probably a date code for 1942. I don’t appraise bottles, but in general these might be considered “generic” liquor bottles which have very minimal value to bottle collectors.
      The more embossed wording (brand name, company, city, state, etc) or design elements there is on the face of a liquor bottle, the better.
      Most bottles with only a number or numbers on the base will have little monetary value. (Although any older bottle may have some value within a historical context, or perhaps have some sentimental value to the finder if found on property passed down within a family, or something of that nature). But I’m speaking of strictly monetary value to experienced bottle collectors.
      ~David

    1. Hi Adam,
      Thanks for the information! I have no idea either. With the increasing popularity of the “green” movement, encouraging the re-use and recycling of glass, this warning would seem to be counterproductive, especially in Europe.
      The design of the bottle is vaguely reminiscent of some liquor flasks produced in the 1920s or ’30s in the US. There is a slight possibility that the Maraska bottle was designed after one of those, and the original mold was inscribed with the phrase………….but perhaps not. It would be interesting to see what company produces those bottles (assuming they carry a makers mark).
      Searching the Emhart punt marks database, I see one glass company listed in Croatia, called Vetropak. Of course there is no guarantee those bottles are made there. Anyway, interesting. THANKS for writing!
      David

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